Hello

[Leo Besner]

Hello, I'm new to the site but really like what I've seen so far. I'm currently rebuilding a 351c in my 73 MACH 1. Seemed logical since a pushrod on #1 cylinder was broke in half. My goal is to get 400 bhp and better than 400 ftlb torque.I'm starting with the normal machine work on the block balancing,boring...etc.The cam is a Comp Cam hyd roller retro kit (284hr).The heads closed chamber stock heads.They have been cleaned up and the springs,retainers from the kit installed and Harland sharp rockers on 7/16th studs.The pistons are Keith Black 13cc dished for 9.6:1 compression.Intake is the Edlebrock Performer with a Holley or Barry Grant carb (indecision).The oiling is thru a Melling High Volume blueprinted pump with hardened shaft.Msd 6al box with a billet distributor handle the spark.The car has the dealer installed Ram Air and the tranny is a C6 w/B&M shifter.If there are any comments pro or con I'd like to hear them.This is my first complete rebuild and to say I'm a little swamped is an understatment. Thanks

[Leo Besner]

I realized a mistake in my first post.I'm trying to get 400hp at the rear wheels (rwhp) not just at the crank(bhp) as I mistakenly stated.Needless to say this just affirms that I need all the help I can get.Oh yeah,The heads are 4v closed chamber.
If anyone is interested in pictures checkout...http://photoshow.comcast.net/lbesner/friends
and click on the car.

[AsaJay]

Leo,

Nice looking Mach 1.

A few comments:
The 351C block is a thin-wall cast block. If you want to get as much horsepower to the rear wheels as possible, you should not bore to .030 oversize. At that size you'll start to blow holes in the cylinder walls under high horsepower. The best thing to do is have the block "sonic checked" for thickness. Then depending on how thick the walls are, you may need to have the cylinders "center-bored" which is setting up the machine for each cylinder based on it's centerline instead of cylinder spacing. This makes sure you take out material evenly, leaving the wall thickness the same around the circumference of the bore. Another good idea is to use a torque plate. This is a heavy steel plate that torques to the block just like a head, except it has holes to accommodate the boring bar. This pre-stresses the block while boring to get the holes true. If your engine builder tells you he can bore a 351C to .060 and still be fine, find another machinest. For a 400 hp build, you don't want to go even .030, though it's possible to still get a lot of horsepower and torque with a .030 over-bore, you run a higher risk of punching holes in the cylinder walls.

With that said, your best bet is to go .010, .015 or .020 over. Pistons are harder to get for the smaller size over-bores but -are- available. You will pay a premieum for them as well. The best thing to do is have a block that doesn't need to be bored at all.

In a 351C application, it is -NOT- recommended to run a high volume or a high pressure oil pump. Doing so will contribute to premature failure of the roll pin that holds the distributor gear on the distributor shaft. A high volume or high pressure oil pump puts a heavy load on the distributor gear. The best improvements to oiling are first install a restrictor kit in the mains to reduce the oil going to the cam bearing and increase it to the mains, next put in an external oil line between the plug above the fuel pump to the oil sender location. Sheared distributor pins are common, even among Clevelands that don't have a high volume or high pressure pump. Two things happen when the pin shears, fisrt the oil pump no longer works, second you get no spark, so at least when you suddenly lose presure, the engine will stop. Please note I am not talking about the oil pump drive shaft, I am talking about the roll pin that holds the dizzy gear on the dizzy shaft.

You want 400 horse at the rear wheels. Well, that's gonna be more difficult, but of course not impossible. It's possible to lose something like 25% of your hp between the engine and the rubber to the road at the rear wheels. I could be off on that number so don't quote me. This means you'll need to build your engine to darn near 500 hp in order to get 400 at the wheels. Just be aware of the loses in the drivetrain.

I would tend to go with flat top pistons, I did in my last build at the engine runs great on pump gas 92 Octane, no pinging. The theoretical compression is closer to 10.5:1 which I'm sure you would like better to get to the hp mark you are shooting for.

For the C6 transmission, I would recommend a Trans-Go street/strip shift kit for the valve body, and I would recommend the Ford Racing reduced first gear ration gear set, heavy duty forward clutch drum and "R" servo-accumulator. I would get a higher stall converter something in the range of 2000 to 2200 rpm; not too tall or you'll find the car is not very streetable.

As for carb, I've haerd a whole lot of good personal reviews on the Speed Demon carbs. You give them a call directly, talk with them about your application, they send you a carb, you bolt it on and it just plain works. I'm not a Holley fan but that's because I live in the Pacific Northwest and have to adjust the stupid things twice a year whether they need it or not. A Barry Grant might be okay too, but I'd go with a Speed Demon.

You can see more on my last rebuild here:
http://www.asajay.com/oldasajay/351rebuild/351rebuild.htm

Hang on to that Ram Air system too. They have nearly tripled in price over the last 10 years. I personally need two new air doors but haven't coughed up the money yet.

The components you have selected at this point should get you on the high end of 300 hp if not 400 at the crank. You'll need to get some more opinions and do some more research to get that at the rear wheels.

I hope I haven't frustrated you too much with some of what I've said. Most of what I know here comes from experience or the experience of others.

Asa Jay

[Leo Besner]

Thanks for your input,it's not frustrating but I find it helpful.This is the first time I've attempted a complete rebuild like this.The last time I did a significant amount of engine work was rebuilding the top end of a 70 Buick Gran Sport Stage 1........in 1979.With that said the technology and information available is obviously light years away from anything I remember.
I've been looking into the roll pin issue after hearing that same info from several different people and think I'll substitute a standard volume pump instead (it's cheaper anyway).
I'm also starting to rethink my goal of 400 rwhp.I started there and am starting to realize the amount of money and effort needed to attain it.I think I'd rather save some of the extra money for drivetrain upgrades or some interior work.Besides the car is just to have fun with and the actual HP numbers don't really matter as long as it's fun to drive.
I'll take a look at your website also.If you don't mind my rambling I'd like to continue picking your brain for info.
Also,thanks for the tip about holley carbs....I live in Wash also and didn't realize they were that delicate.I would guess they are affected by the moisture??
Thanks again

[AsaJay]

Carbs are affected by air density, temperature and altitude. The trouble around here is that winter choke settings don't work in the summer and vice-verse. Mixtures tend to change a bit too.

I think to get that real good "feel" of great horsepower, you should look into the reduced ration gear set for the C6. It gives you a lower first gear ratio, kind of like putting a set of 4:11s in the rear end, but still have the same high end gear set, so you can reach some nice top speeds. You also might look into rear end gear sets (something I don't often think about but which can give you leaps of acceleration).

Please feel free to pick my brain any amount you need. I won't promise to know everything, there is just way too much to know.

Asa Jay

[Leo Besner]

I read that you used Damper Dudes to rebuild your damper.Does a rebuild of the oem unit work or does it need to be beefed up for higher performing engines? I looked at your site for the rebuild and can't remember if you used Fluid damper, Rattler or Damper Dudes.It's all starting to run together.

[AsaJay]

I received a very nice rebuilt stock unit from Damper Dudes. There are many varying opinions about aftermarket dampers, and not all of it is good. I run a Damper Dudes rebuilt stock unit. I've heard a lot of good things about them on other cars. I have only heard of one failure, whereas I've heard of many failures with dampers like Rattlr, etc.

From a thread on the Detomaso email forum:
http://www.realbig.com/pipermail/detomaso/2006-February/069283.html
an ATI or a Romac are the best high performance damper/balancer that you can get. A Damper Dudes rebuild is really only good for mild performance where the engine won't see sustained rpms higher than stock for very long. In my case, it works out okay, but if you plan on running higher revs for longer periods, you might consider an ATI or a Romac.

Asa Jay